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	<title>Comments on: Mouvance and adaptation</title>
	<atom:link href="http://superfani.com/2009/03/09/mouvance-and-adaptation/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://superfani.com/2009/03/09/mouvance-and-adaptation/</link>
	<description>blasting off again</description>
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		<title>By: Fred Gallagher on Twitter &#171; Pontifus</title>
		<link>http://superfani.com/2009/03/09/mouvance-and-adaptation/#comment-794</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Fred Gallagher on Twitter &#171; Pontifus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfani.com/?p=3912#comment-794</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] that goes over 600-700 words, I&#8217;ll move it over to Super Fanicom (which is what happened with my last post). I haven&#8217;t had much time yet to give this process a thorough testing, this site being so [...] ]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that goes over 600-700 words, I&#8217;ll move it over to Super Fanicom (which is what happened with my last post). I haven&#8217;t had much time yet to give this process a thorough testing, this site being so [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Pontifus</title>
		<link>http://superfani.com/2009/03/09/mouvance-and-adaptation/#comment-793</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pontifus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 18:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfani.com/?p=3912#comment-793</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t mean to suggest that mouvance is the best or only term that applies to adaptation; I&#039;m just throwing it out there (or, well, I&#039;m catching it after IKnight threw it out there) as &lt;i&gt;a&lt;/i&gt; term. I tend to think that no situation can be summed up with a single term.

I think there&#039;s a gulf between the ideas of work and intellectual property; I consider the latter to consist, in artistic/creative if not legal terms, of those core ideas you mention that run through all derivatives (it gets pretty vague anyway), while the former consists of that plus all the derivatives themselves. The work, then, would list beneath its &quot;Taiga&quot; heading not just the general idea of the character that all Toradora adaptations get across, but every nuance of the character from every adaptation -- contradictory though some may be, Taiga as signifier can be said to encompass all of them, from the standpoint of the work.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t mean to suggest that mouvance is the best or only term that applies to adaptation; I&#8217;m just throwing it out there (or, well, I&#8217;m catching it after IKnight threw it out there) as <i>a</i> term. I tend to think that no situation can be summed up with a single term.</p>
<p>I think there&#8217;s a gulf between the ideas of work and intellectual property; I consider the latter to consist, in artistic/creative if not legal terms, of those core ideas you mention that run through all derivatives (it gets pretty vague anyway), while the former consists of that plus all the derivatives themselves. The work, then, would list beneath its &#8220;Taiga&#8221; heading not just the general idea of the character that all Toradora adaptations get across, but every nuance of the character from every adaptation &#8212; contradictory though some may be, Taiga as signifier can be said to encompass all of them, from the standpoint of the work.</p>
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		<title>By: Pontifus</title>
		<link>http://superfani.com/2009/03/09/mouvance-and-adaptation/#comment-792</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pontifus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 18:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfani.com/?p=3912#comment-792</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m dealing more with the former kind of adaptation here. I&#039;m sure linguistics come in somewhere -- should we consider different translations to be wholly different derivative texts, I wonder? -- but I&#039;m not ready to approach that issue yet.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m dealing more with the former kind of adaptation here. I&#8217;m sure linguistics come in somewhere &#8212; should we consider different translations to be wholly different derivative texts, I wonder? &#8212; but I&#8217;m not ready to approach that issue yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Cuchlann</title>
		<link>http://superfani.com/2009/03/09/mouvance-and-adaptation/#comment-791</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cuchlann]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 09:24:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfani.com/?p=3912#comment-791</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Of course, this is just looking at the issue of narrative adaptations of a media franchise. There are certainly other modern complexities to the situation… it’s doubtful that you had rabid collectors of 1/65 scale figures of the Knights of the Round Table circa 1200 AD. (Perhaps even with a mail-in special offer? Collect all twelve and receive a limited edition Holy Grail?)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I cite statuary.  ; )]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Of course, this is just looking at the issue of narrative adaptations of a media franchise. There are certainly other modern complexities to the situation… it’s doubtful that you had rabid collectors of 1/65 scale figures of the Knights of the Round Table circa 1200 AD. (Perhaps even with a mail-in special offer? Collect all twelve and receive a limited edition Holy Grail?)</p></blockquote>
<p>I cite statuary.  ; )</p>
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		<title>By: vendredi</title>
		<link>http://superfani.com/2009/03/09/mouvance-and-adaptation/#comment-790</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[vendredi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 09:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfani.com/?p=3912#comment-790</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Mouvance&quot; certainly fits, and can explain also explain variation between adaptations, whether visual-novel-to-anime, light-novel-to-anime, manga-to-anime, or any combination. However, not sure if I&#039;m entirely convinced it is the best term to use here... or rather, the only term. To be honest, I think the term &quot;mouvance&quot; is essentially shorthand for &quot;how authors interact differently with a &#039;media franchise&#039;.&quot;

In a similar manner to potentially some medieval orators and scribes (and completely opposite Chaucer&#039;s point of view about the integrity of the text), media franchises at the end of the day only hold certain elements of the intellectual property constant. Hence, in all ToraDora expectations we expect to see iterations of Taiga, Ryuuji, Ami, Minorin, etc. But aside from that, anything goes. This is even more evident in long running franchises, such as Batman, where many authors and artists have tried their hand at the character with very different results.

Essentially, the structure of a media franchise is not so different from what Zumthor describes - the distinction between the &quot;work&quot; and the &quot;manuscripts&quot; is pretty much legally enshrined in franchise law: the first being the &quot;intellectual property&quot; and an &quot;adaptation&quot; (or, if you&#039;re particular cynical, &quot;the merchandise&quot;).

Of course, this is just looking at the issue of narrative adaptations of a media franchise. There are certainly other modern complexities to the situation... it&#039;s doubtful that you had rabid collectors of 1/65 scale figures of the Knights of the Round Table circa 1200 AD. (Perhaps even with a mail-in special offer? Collect all twelve and receive a limited edition Holy Grail?)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Mouvance&#8221; certainly fits, and can explain also explain variation between adaptations, whether visual-novel-to-anime, light-novel-to-anime, manga-to-anime, or any combination. However, not sure if I&#8217;m entirely convinced it is the best term to use here&#8230; or rather, the only term. To be honest, I think the term &#8220;mouvance&#8221; is essentially shorthand for &#8220;how authors interact differently with a &#8216;media franchise&#8217;.&#8221;</p>
<p>In a similar manner to potentially some medieval orators and scribes (and completely opposite Chaucer&#8217;s point of view about the integrity of the text), media franchises at the end of the day only hold certain elements of the intellectual property constant. Hence, in all ToraDora expectations we expect to see iterations of Taiga, Ryuuji, Ami, Minorin, etc. But aside from that, anything goes. This is even more evident in long running franchises, such as Batman, where many authors and artists have tried their hand at the character with very different results.</p>
<p>Essentially, the structure of a media franchise is not so different from what Zumthor describes &#8211; the distinction between the &#8220;work&#8221; and the &#8220;manuscripts&#8221; is pretty much legally enshrined in franchise law: the first being the &#8220;intellectual property&#8221; and an &#8220;adaptation&#8221; (or, if you&#8217;re particular cynical, &#8220;the merchandise&#8221;).</p>
<p>Of course, this is just looking at the issue of narrative adaptations of a media franchise. There are certainly other modern complexities to the situation&#8230; it&#8217;s doubtful that you had rabid collectors of 1/65 scale figures of the Knights of the Round Table circa 1200 AD. (Perhaps even with a mail-in special offer? Collect all twelve and receive a limited edition Holy Grail?)</p>
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		<title>By: ghostlightning</title>
		<link>http://superfani.com/2009/03/09/mouvance-and-adaptation/#comment-789</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ghostlightning]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 04:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfani.com/?p=3912#comment-789</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Apocryphal, but Tomino has been cock-blocked by executive meddling quite a bit. From the choice of Amuro&#039;s love interests, to ZZ ending up being stricken from the canon (don&#039;t quote me) as well as his writing different resolutions in his novelzations. Who is the authentic source then? 

Man, Gundam is just Gundam to me.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apocryphal, but Tomino has been cock-blocked by executive meddling quite a bit. From the choice of Amuro&#8217;s love interests, to ZZ ending up being stricken from the canon (don&#8217;t quote me) as well as his writing different resolutions in his novelzations. Who is the authentic source then? </p>
<p>Man, Gundam is just Gundam to me.</p>
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		<title>By: ghostlightning</title>
		<link>http://superfani.com/2009/03/09/mouvance-and-adaptation/#comment-788</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[ghostlightning]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 04:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfani.com/?p=3912#comment-788</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I found a few of the eps very funny, but then again I enjoy in-jokes, meta-jokes, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found a few of the eps very funny, but then again I enjoy in-jokes, meta-jokes, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Ubiquitial</title>
		<link>http://superfani.com/2009/03/09/mouvance-and-adaptation/#comment-787</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ubiquitial]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 02:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfani.com/?p=3912#comment-787</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Haruhi - Chan is not funny. Heard the manga is, but the anime is not. Probrately just Kadokawa milking the Haruhi cash cow like  they did to Evangelion with Petit Eva.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haruhi &#8211; Chan is not funny. Heard the manga is, but the anime is not. Probrately just Kadokawa milking the Haruhi cash cow like  they did to Evangelion with Petit Eva.</p>
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		<title>By: animekritik</title>
		<link>http://superfani.com/2009/03/09/mouvance-and-adaptation/#comment-786</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[animekritik]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 02:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfani.com/?p=3912#comment-786</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Damn,  I&#039;m pretty sure I own the Oxford Classic version of Karamazov.  But yeah, anyone who knows even a smattering of Russian will tell you translations from Russian are not translations, but by necessity recreations.  The language is far too removed from Western European tongues.  May I add that Japanese translations have similar issues, which is bad for me coz I&#039;ve only mustered the courage to read maybe 10 books in the original.

On the post, there&#039;s an interesting experiment going on right now in the Haruhi franchise.  Kadokawa has taken fanwork and made a series of cartoon shorts based on it, using the original voice actors of Haruhi Season 1.  There you have some mouvance maybe.  It really does your head in when trying to think in terms of canon.  Then there&#039;s Leiji Matsumoto, who&#039;s a one-man oral culture phenomenon.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn,  I&#8217;m pretty sure I own the Oxford Classic version of Karamazov.  But yeah, anyone who knows even a smattering of Russian will tell you translations from Russian are not translations, but by necessity recreations.  The language is far too removed from Western European tongues.  May I add that Japanese translations have similar issues, which is bad for me coz I&#8217;ve only mustered the courage to read maybe 10 books in the original.</p>
<p>On the post, there&#8217;s an interesting experiment going on right now in the Haruhi franchise.  Kadokawa has taken fanwork and made a series of cartoon shorts based on it, using the original voice actors of Haruhi Season 1.  There you have some mouvance maybe.  It really does your head in when trying to think in terms of canon.  Then there&#8217;s Leiji Matsumoto, who&#8217;s a one-man oral culture phenomenon.</p>
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		<title>By: Ubiquitial</title>
		<link>http://superfani.com/2009/03/09/mouvance-and-adaptation/#comment-785</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ubiquitial]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 01:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfani.com/?p=3912#comment-785</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Of course adaptations differ. But we are not discussing the adaptation of light novels into anime, I believe, but rather, from one language to another. That is usually where the problem is. No matter how good the translator is, the cultural gap is always the hubris of the translation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course adaptations differ. But we are not discussing the adaptation of light novels into anime, I believe, but rather, from one language to another. That is usually where the problem is. No matter how good the translator is, the cultural gap is always the hubris of the translation.</p>
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		<title>By: Pontifus</title>
		<link>http://superfani.com/2009/03/09/mouvance-and-adaptation/#comment-784</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pontifus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 01:48:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfani.com/?p=3912#comment-784</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Correct me if I&#039;m wrong, but wasn&#039;t Tomino an ever-present creative force in the Gundam franchise for quite a while? That&#039;s an interesting variation on the creator who makes the source work and essentially lets other people run with it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correct me if I&#8217;m wrong, but wasn&#8217;t Tomino an ever-present creative force in the Gundam franchise for quite a while? That&#8217;s an interesting variation on the creator who makes the source work and essentially lets other people run with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Pontifus</title>
		<link>http://superfani.com/2009/03/09/mouvance-and-adaptation/#comment-783</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pontifus]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 01:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://superfani.com/?p=3912#comment-783</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cuchlann and I theorize that one of us is a clone of the other. Probably I&#039;m the clone, since I&#039;m younger, but we have yet to figure out which of us is the &lt;i&gt;evil&lt;/i&gt; one. Maybe we&#039;re both clones of some older, fouler creature. God help us all if that&#039;s true.

I&#039;m hesitant to start making flat-out value judgments about adaptations because the reception thereof is very situational. They differ from translations in that the story of the source material is very often deliberately altered, whether slightly or heavily. Supposedly the Toradora anime diverges from the novels quite a bit in certain areas, but that doesn&#039;t make it bad -- for all I know at this point (which isn&#039;t much -- I still haven&#039;t read past the first chapter of the first novel), it may make it better, in my estimation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cuchlann and I theorize that one of us is a clone of the other. Probably I&#8217;m the clone, since I&#8217;m younger, but we have yet to figure out which of us is the <i>evil</i> one. Maybe we&#8217;re both clones of some older, fouler creature. God help us all if that&#8217;s true.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m hesitant to start making flat-out value judgments about adaptations because the reception thereof is very situational. They differ from translations in that the story of the source material is very often deliberately altered, whether slightly or heavily. Supposedly the Toradora anime diverges from the novels quite a bit in certain areas, but that doesn&#8217;t make it bad &#8212; for all I know at this point (which isn&#8217;t much &#8212; I still haven&#8217;t read past the first chapter of the first novel), it may make it better, in my estimation.</p>
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